Utilizador:InProgress/Mormonism and Wikipedia/Academic among amateurs - Histórico de revisões

RogerNicholson: /* A comparison: Wikipedia bias versus the tempering of peer review */ mod

2009-12-11T02:16:35Z

A comparison: Wikipedia bias versus the tempering of peer review: mod

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	!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."		!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Historian<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."
	!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko,<br>Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}}<br>Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)		!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko,<br>Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}}<br>Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)
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RogerNicholson: /* Timing */ format

2009-12-11T02:08:01Z

Timing: format

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	*[S]ometime before 1828 Lucy and three of her children—Hyrum, Samuel, and Sophronia—joined the Presbyterian church where Stockton was the pastor.[15]		*[S]ometime before 1828 Lucy and three of her children—Hyrum, Samuel, and Sophronia—joined the Presbyterian church where Stockton was the pastor.[15]
	*Citations: Lucy Mack Smith, “Preliminary Manuscript” (1845), LDS Church		*Citations: Lucy Mack Smith, “Preliminary Manuscript” (1845), LDS Church
	Archives, Salt Lake City, in Early Mormon Documents, 1:306. For notice of the 1824-25 revival, see Wayne Sentinel, March 2, 1825. No membership records of the Western Presbyterian Church survive for this period, and the date of their membership remains controversial, but Lucy Smith strongly implied that she joined the Presbyterian Church after Alvin’s death. Stockton served as pastor of Western Presbyterian Church from February 1824 until October 1827, the mostly likely period of the Smiths’ church membership.		*Archives, Salt Lake City, in Early Mormon Documents, 1:306. For notice of the 1824-25 revival, see Wayne Sentinel, March 2, 1825. No membership records of the Western Presbyterian Church survive for this period, and the date of their membership remains controversial, but Lucy Smith strongly implied that she joined the Presbyterian Church after Alvin’s death. Stockton served as pastor of Western Presbyterian Church from February 1824 until October 1827, the mostly likely period of the Smiths’ church membership.
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	*"Foxe" continues his original research by inserting the comment "rather than the actual date of 1824-1825."		*"Foxe" continues his original research by inserting the comment "rather than the actual date of 1824-1825."
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	=====Methodist Property=====		=====Methodist Property=====
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RogerNicholson: /* Reference */ format

2009-12-11T02:07:00Z

Reference: format

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	*When Joseph reported his earliest vision to his mother, he did not tell her that all Christian sects were equally erroneous. He said that “Presbyterianism [was] not true.”		*When Joseph reported his earliest vision to his mother, he did not tell her that all Christian sects were equally erroneous. He said that “Presbyterianism [was] not true.”
	Citations: “Joseph Smith History, 1839,” in Early Mormon Documents, 1:143.		*Citations: “Joseph Smith History, 1839,” in Early Mormon Documents, 1:143.
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	*Note the Wikipedia article's claim that "Smith said that he made an oblique reference..." The sentence itself is oddly structured, since Joseph never ''said'' that he made an ''oblique'' reference. This is the Wikipedia editor's effort to insert as many qualifiers as possible in order to minimize the possibility that one might assume that Joseph was telling the truth. Oddly enough, a professor of historical writing ought to catch something such as this.		*Note the Wikipedia article's claim that "Smith said that he made an oblique reference..." The sentence itself is oddly structured, since Joseph never ''said'' that he made an ''oblique'' reference. This is the Wikipedia editor's effort to insert as many qualifiers as possible in order to minimize the possibility that one might assume that Joseph was telling the truth. Oddly enough, a professor of historical writing ought to catch something such as this.

RogerNicholson: /* A comparison: Wikipedia bias versus the tempering of peer review */ mod

2009-12-11T02:05:21Z

A comparison: Wikipedia bias versus the tempering of peer review: mod

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	!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."		!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."
	!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko, Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}} Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)		!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko,<br>Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}}<br>Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)
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RogerNicholson: /* A comparison: Wikipedia bias versus the tempering of peer review */ mod

2009-12-11T02:04:55Z

A comparison: Wikipedia bias versus the tempering of peer review: mod

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	!width="29%"\|Wiki academic "John Foxe," Bob Jones University, Wikipedia article "First Vision."		!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."
	!width="20%"\|Real world academic John Matzko, Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}} Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)		!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko, Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}} Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)
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RogerNicholson: /* A comparison: Wikipedia bias versus the tempering of peer review */ link

2009-12-11T02:03:43Z

A comparison: Wikipedia bias versus the tempering of peer review: link

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	!width="29%"\|Wiki academic "John Foxe," Wikipedia article "First Vision."		!width="29%"\|Wiki academic "John Foxe," Bob Jones University, Wikipedia article "First Vision."
	!width="20%"\|Real world academic John Matzko "The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)		!width="20%"\|Real world academic John Matzko, Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}} Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)
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RogerNicholson: Reverted edits by RogerNicholson (Talk) to last revision by Pistas3

2009-12-09T17:42:01Z

Reverted edits by RogerNicholson (Talk) to last revision by Pistas3

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RogerNicholson: redirect

2009-11-16T16:28:18Z

redirect

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RogerNicholson: /* A study in contrasts: An academic among amateurs */ mod

2009-06-12T19:44:42Z

A study in contrasts: An academic among amateurs: mod

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	=A study in contrasts: An academic among amateurs=		=A study in contrasts: An academic among amateurs=
	~~<blockquote>~~		{{Epigraph\|In a recent (and excellent) article in the Journal of American History (June 2006), “Can History Be Open Source? Wikipedia and the Future of the Past,” the author, Roy Rosenzweig, notes how “academics and other highly-qualified people” who were initially excited by the project were “slowly worn down and driven away by having to deal with difficult people.” (140) I refuse to be worn down and driven away.<br>
	~~<center>~~		—John "Foxe" 7 July 2006 (UTC) {{link\|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bob_Jones_University/Archive_0003#Bibb_Graves}} }}
	''In a recent (and excellent) article in the Journal of American History (June 2006), “Can History Be Open Source? Wikipedia and the Future of the Past,” the author, Roy Rosenzweig, notes how “academics and other highly-qualified people” who were initially excited by the project were “slowly worn down and driven away by having to deal with difficult people.” (140) I refuse to be worn down and driven away.''<br>
	"~~John~~ Foxe" 7 July 2006 (UTC) {{link\|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bob_Jones_University/Archive_0003#Bibb_Graves}}		{{Epigraph\|--by that great author, Anonymous<br>
	<~~/center~~>		—Posted by an "anonymous" editor from Bob Jones University to the Wikipedia "Anonymity" talk page. 24 February 2005}}
	~~</blockquote>~~
	{{parabreak}}		{{parabreak}}

RogerNicholson: /* Exhorter */ moved link

2009-06-11T04:56:13Z

Exhorter: moved link

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	*[2] Orsamus Turner, History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham's Purchase, and Morris' Reserve (Rochester, N.Y.: William Alling, 1851), 214, in Early Mormon Documents, 3:50.		*[2] Orsamus Turner, History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham's Purchase, and Morris' Reserve (Rochester, N.Y.: William Alling, 1851), 214, in Early Mormon Documents, 3:50.
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	*Note how much convoluted text John "Foxe" uses to describe the citation that Dr. Matzko effectively uses in a single line, although Matzko does make an assumption that Joseph was an "exhorter" at the Methodist meetings, rather than noting the debate club. "Foxe" doesn't like the fact that the citation clearly mentions a debating club, and that Joseph was an "exhorter" in evening meetings after he caught "a spark of Methodism" at the camp meetings. Turner mentions the debating club, but "Foxe" has to break the quote into parts and insert a lengthy dictionary definition of the word "exhorter" in order to make sure the reader understands the citation the way he wants them to. "Foxe" is trying very hard to obscure the fact that it was the primary source ''Turner'' that mentioned the "debating club," and does not actually allow the source quote that mentions it to appear until toward the end of the citation. "Foxe" even inserts the editorial comment that "no other reputable scholar has adopted this interpretation," {{link\|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=First_Vision&diff=150822549&oldid=150819472}} ~~thus casting doubt on Ray's credentials.~~		*Note how much convoluted text John "Foxe" uses to describe the citation that Dr. Matzko effectively uses in a single line, although Matzko does make an assumption that Joseph was an "exhorter" at the Methodist meetings, rather than noting the debate club. "Foxe" doesn't like the fact that the citation clearly mentions a debating club, and that Joseph was an "exhorter" in evening meetings after he caught "a spark of Methodism" at the camp meetings. Turner mentions the debating club, but "Foxe" has to break the quote into parts and insert a lengthy dictionary definition of the word "exhorter" in order to make sure the reader understands the citation the way he wants them to. "Foxe" is trying very hard to obscure the fact that it was the primary source ''Turner'' that mentioned the "debating club," and does not actually allow the source quote that mentions it to appear until toward the end of the citation. "Foxe" even inserts the editorial comment that "no other reputable scholar has adopted this interpretation," thus casting doubt on Ray's credentials. {{link\|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=First_Vision&diff=150822549&oldid=150819472}}
	*In contrast, Dr. Matzko simply states his conclusion: That Joseph was an "exhorter" at Methodist camp meetings, and cites Turner as a source. There are no unprofessional comments casting doubts upon other scholars in ''this'' paper, which was required to pass a peer review.		*In contrast, Dr. Matzko simply states his conclusion: That Joseph was an "exhorter" at Methodist camp meetings, and cites Turner as a source. There are no unprofessional comments casting doubts upon other scholars in ''this'' paper, which was required to pass a peer review.
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← Revisão anterior		Revisão das 02h16min de 11 de dezembro de 2009
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	!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."		!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Historian<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."
	!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko,<br>Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}}<br>Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)		!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko,<br>Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}}<br>Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)
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	!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."		!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."
	!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko, Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}} Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)		!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko,<br>Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}}<br>Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)
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← Revisão anterior		Revisão das 02h04min de 11 de dezembro de 2009
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	!width="29%"\|Wiki academic "John Foxe," Bob Jones University, Wikipedia article "First Vision."		!width="29%"\|Wiki academic<br>"John Foxe,"<br>Bob Jones University,<br>Wikipedia article "First Vision."
	!width="20%"\|Real world academic John Matzko, Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}} Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)		!width="20%"\|Real world academic<br>John Matzko, Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}} Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)
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← Revisão anterior		Revisão das 02h03min de 11 de dezembro de 2009
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	!width="29%"\|Wiki academic "John Foxe," Wikipedia article "First Vision."		!width="29%"\|Wiki academic "John Foxe," Bob Jones University, Wikipedia article "First Vision."
	!width="20%"\|Real world academic John Matzko "The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)		!width="20%"\|Real world academic John Matzko, Chairperson, Division of Social Science, {{link\|url=http://www.bju.edu/academics/faculty/facultymember.php?id=jmatzko}} Bob Jones University.<br>"The Encounter of Young Joseph Smith with Presbyterianism," ''Dialogue''40/3 (2007)
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