A Primeira Visão/Contas/1832/Motivação para orar é diferente - Histórico de revisões

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	*Será que isso conta como uma evidência de que a história do Profeta mudou ao longo do tempo e, por isso, foi simplesmente composta no início?		*Será que isso conta como uma evidência de que a história do Profeta mudou ao longo do tempo e, por isso, foi simplesmente composta no início?

	~~{{etiqueta conclusão}}~~

	A alegação de que o motivo da oração de Joseph Smith muda em relatos posteriores ao evento da Primeira Visão não passa no teste de exame minucioso. A evidência mostra, ao contrário, que os elementos da história permanecem estáveis ao longo do tempo. As motivações de Joseph para orar não estão, como um crítico coloca "em todo lugar." Ele teve duas motivações: o perdão dos pecados, e um desejo de saber qual igreja estava certa.		A alegação de que o motivo da oração de Joseph Smith muda em relatos posteriores ao evento da Primeira Visão não passa no teste de exame minucioso. A evidência mostra, ao contrário, que os elementos da história permanecem estáveis ao longo do tempo. As motivações de Joseph para orar não estão, como um crítico coloca "em todo lugar." Ele teve duas motivações: o perdão dos pecados, e um desejo de saber qual igreja estava certa.

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2017-06-29T16:58:25Z

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	A declaração de Joseph Smith sobre sua motivação para orar ao Senhor muda entre o primeiro relato conhecido da Primeira Visão (1832) e sua versão oficial (1838).		A declaração de Joseph Smith sobre sua motivação para orar ao Senhor muda entre o primeiro relato conhecido da Primeira Visão (1832) e sua versão oficial (1838).

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2017-06-29T03:36:52Z

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2017-06-05T21:11:32Z

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2017-06-03T04:02:46Z

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	*Será que isso conta como uma evidência de que a história do Profeta mudou ao longo do tempo e, por isso, foi simplesmente composta no início?		*Será que isso conta como uma evidência de que a história do Profeta mudou ao longo do tempo e, por isso, foi simplesmente composta no início?

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	Deve-se ter em mente que aqueles que relatam a manifestação inaugural do Profeta por escrito nem sempre soletram as coisas exatamente da mesma maneira; às vezes informações são ocultas pela linguagem que outros optam por utilizar, e de vez em quando omitem elementos da história (possivelmente devido às considerações de audiência).		Deve-se ter em mente que aqueles que relatam a manifestação inaugural do Profeta por escrito nem sempre soletram as coisas exatamente da mesma maneira; às vezes informações são ocultas pela linguagem que outros optam por utilizar, e de vez em quando omitem elementos da história (possivelmente devido às considerações de audiência).

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RogerNicholson em 01h59min de 10 de maio de 2016

2016-05-10T01:59:13Z

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	~~[[Category:First Vision]]~~
	~~[[Category:Letter to a CES Director~~]]

LuizSilva em 06h49min de 3 de novembro de 2014

2014-11-03T06:49:47Z

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RogerNicholson: m

2014-08-18T19:58:27Z

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RogerNicholson: m

2014-08-18T19:58:10Z

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{{título do recurso|A motivação de Joseph Smith para a oração em sua conta 1832 Primeira Visão}}
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{{epígrafe|for I become convicted of my sins...and I felt to mourn for my own sins and for the sins of the world... —Joseph Smith's 1832 account of the First Vision}}
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== ==
{{etiqueta pergunta}}

Joseph Smith's stated motivation for praying to the Lord changes between the first known account of the First Vision (1832) and the official version of it (1838).
*Does this count as evidence that the Prophet's story changed over time and, hence, was simply made up to begin with?

== ==
{{etiqueta conclusão}}

The assertion that Joseph Smith's motivation for prayer changes in later accounts of the First Vision event does not pass the test of close examination. The evidence shows, rather, that the story elements remain steady over time. Joseph's motivations for praying are not, as one critic puts it "all over the place." He had two motivations: forgiveness of sins, and a desire to know which church was right.
*'''1832 Account'''— my intimate acquaintance with those of different denominations, led me to marvel exceedingly. For I discovered that they did not adorn their profession by a holy walk and godly conversation agreeable to what I found contained in that sacred depository. This was a grief to my soul.... My mind become exceedingly distressed for I became convicted of my sins....He spake unto me saying, 'Joseph my son, thy sins are forgiven thee.
*'''1835 Account (9 Nov. 1835)'''— being wrought up in my mind, respecting the subject of religion and looking at the different systems taught the children of men, I knew not who was right or who was wrong and I considered it of the first importance that I should be right.... he said unto me thy sins are forgiven thee....
*'''1835 Account (14 Nov. 1835)'''— This account is simply a one line summary of the vision - motive not given.
*'''1838 Account (published in 1842)'''— Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?....My object in going to enquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join.... many other things did He say unto me which I cannot write at this time....
*'''1840 Account by Orson Pratt'''— ...if any one of these denominations be the Church of Christ, which one is it?... He was informed that his sins were forgiven. 

It must be kept in mind that those who report the Prophet's inaugural manifestation in writing do not always spell things out in exactly the same way; sometimes they obscure information by the language they choose to utilize and on occasion they omit story elements altogether (possibly because of audience considerations).

== ==
{{etiqueta resposta}}

The texts that are employed by critics to justify the charge of 'differing motivations' are as follows:

'''1832'''
:"I cried unto the Lord for mercy for there was none else to whom I could go and obtain mercy"

'''1838'''
:"My object in going to enquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join."

The words that precede the point at which Joseph Smith offers his prayer in the 1832 text demonstrate that the anti-Mormon claim about his motivation changing is not sustainable. These words read as follows (standardized for readability):

:At about the age of twelve years my mind become seriously impressed with regard to the all important concerns for the welfare of my immortal soul which led me to searching the scriptures believing, as I was taught, that they contained the word of God.

:Thus applying myself to them, and my intimate acquaintance with those of different denominations, led me to marvel exceedingly. For I discovered that they did not adorn their profession by a holy walk and godly conversation agreeable to what I found contained in that sacred depository. This was a grief to my soul.

:Thus, from the age of twelve years to fifteen I pondered many things in my heart concerning the situation of the world of mankind: the contentions and divisions, the wickedness and abominations, and the darkness which pervaded the minds of mankind.

:My mind become exceedingly distressed for I became convicted of my sins.

:And by searching the scriptures I found that mankind did not come unto the Lord but that they had apostatized from the true and living faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the New Testament.

:And I felt to mourn for my own sins and for the sins of the world.

:For I learned in the scriptures that God was the same yesterday, today, and forever. That He was no respecter to persons, for He was God. For I looked upon the sun - the glorious luminary of the earth - and also the moon rolling in their majesty through the heavens, and also the stars shining in their courses, and the earth also upon which I stood, and the beast of the field and the fowls of heaven, and the fish of the waters, and also man walking forth upon the face of the earth in majesty and in the strength of beauty - whose power and intelligence in governing the things which are so exceding great and marvelous, even in the likeness of Him who created them.

:And when I considered upon these things my heart exclaimed, "Well hath the wise man said, 'It is a fool that saith in his heart there is no God.'" My heart exclaimed, "All all these bear testimony and bespeak an omnipotent and omnipresent power; a Being who maketh laws and decreeeth and bindeth all things in their bounds; who filleth eternity; who was, and is, and will be from all eternity to eternity." And when I considered all these things and that that Being seeketh such to worship Him as worship Him in spirit and in truth, therefore I cried unto the Lord for mercy for there was none else to whom I could go and obtain mercy.

===Summary of themes===

*Between the ages of 12 and 15 Joseph Smith became exceedingly distressed about his personal sins and mourned over them. He became seriously concerned about the welfare of his soul and so he searched the scripture for information on that topic.
*He both marveled and grieved that his acquaintances who belonged to various Christian denominations did not act in accordance with what was found on the pages of the Bible.
*His study of the New Testament led him to the conclusion that all the Christian denominations with which he was acquainted had apostatized from the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
*Joseph pondered the darkness that pervaded the minds of mankind and its resultant wickedness and abominations - and he mourned for the sins of the world.
*He also thought about the "contentions and division" among men [see - revival mentioned in the 1832 text].
*Joseph believed from his personal observation of created objects and entities that God did indeed exist.
*He also believed the scriptures that taught God was an eternal Being who was all powerful and everywhere present, who was no respecter of persons, who was a God of law and did not change over time, and wanted mankind to worship Him in truth.
*When Joseph Smith "'''considered all these things'''" he prayed to the Lord and received his First Vision.

It is clear from a consultation of the 1832 text that Joseph Smith's desire to be forgiven of his personal sins was NOT the only motivation for his prayer in the wilderness. He prayed (as he explicitly states) because of "all" of the things he mentions - including the desire to worship God in truth; according to His laws (which Joseph did not believe was the case among any of the Christians denominations that he knew of).

===Patterns within documents===

The 1832 textual pattern of (1) desire to prepare for eternity / worship God in truth and (2) desire for forgiveness of personal sins can be detected in subsequent First Vision recitals, demonstrating that there is no change in his declared motive over time. The confusion of the critics on this issue arises when they do not see exact matches in themes across documents or insist that every detail of the story be present in every text that relates it.

'''1832 (Smith)'''
:"my mind became seriously impressed with regard to the all important concerns for the welfare of my immortal soul . . . . my mind become excedingly distressed for I became convicted of my sins . . . . when I considered all these things and that that Being seeketh such to worship Him as worship Him in spirit and in truth therefore I cried unto the Lord . . . . He spake unto me saying, 'Joseph my son, thy sins are forgiven thee.'"

'''1834 (Cowdery/Smith)'''
:Joseph Smith had a "determination to know for himself of the certainty and reality of pure and holy religion . . . . [but he also] call[ed] upon the Lord in secret for a full manifestation of divine approbation, and . . . to have an assurance that he was accepted of Him." Joseph is classified in this text among the "humble, penitent sinner."

'''1835 (Smith)'''
:"being wrought up in my mind, respecting the subject of religion and looking at the different systems taught the children of men, I knew not who was right or who was wrong and I considered it of the first importance that I should be right . . . being thus perplexed in mind I retired to the silent grove and bowed down before the Lord . . . . He said unto me, 'Thy sins are forgiven thee.'"

'''1838 (Smith)'''
:"how to act I did not know and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, would never know . . . . My object in going to enquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. . . . many other things did He say unto me which I cannot write at this time" [INDIRECT REFERENCE TO FORGIVENESS OF SINS?]

'''1840 (Pratt)'''
:"[Joseph] began seriously to reflect upon the necessity of being prepared for a future state of existence; but how, or in what way, to prepare himself, was a question, as yet, undetermined in his own mind. He perceived that it was a question of infinite importance, and that the salvation of his soul depended upon a correct understanding of the same. . . . He was informed that his sins were forgiven"

'''1842 (Smith)'''
:"I began to reflect upon the importance of being prepared for a future state, and upon enquiring the plan of salvation I found that there was a great clash in religious sentiment . . . . considering that all could not be right, and that God could not be the author of so much confusion, I determined to investigate the subject more fully" [FORGIVENESS OF SINS IS NOT MENTIONED]

'''1842 (Hyde)'''
:"[Joseph] began seriously to reflect upon the necessity of being prepared for a future state of existence; but how, or in what way to prepare himself, was a question, as yet, undetermined in his own mind; he perceived that it was a question of infinite importance. . . . [The two personages] told him that his prayers had been answered, and that the Lord had decided to grant him a special blessing." [VEILED REFERENCE TO FORGIVENESS OF SINS? - Remember that Hyde utilized information straight from Pratt's account]

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[[Category:First Vision]]
[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]