FAIR - Contribuições do utilizador [pt]

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T18:28:31Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:Polygamy_printed|before=|after='''''Plural marriage printed references'''''}}
*Danel W. Bachman, “A Study of the Mormon Practice of Polygamy Before the Death of Joseph Smith,” (1975) (unpublished M.A. thesis, Purdue University).
*Todd Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'' (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997). ISBN 156085085X.
{{ISLReviews}}
*Kathryn Daynes, "More Wives Than One: Transformation of the Mormon Marriage System, 1840-1910" (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2008). ISBN 0252026810.
*Stephen R. Gibson, ''One-Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions'' (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1995).
*{{WV0}}
*Joseph Fielding McConkie, ''Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1998), 27–28. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/685}} (subscription required)
*Ugo A. Perego, Natalie M. Myres, and Scott R. Woodward, 'Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith: Genealogical Applications," Journal of Mormon History 31. 3 (Fall 2005): 42-60. (Discusses how DNA shows that the parentage of Moroni Pratt, Zebulon Jacobs, and Orrison Smith is not through Joseph Smith).
*{{EaR|start=340|end=344}}
*{{EaR|start=390|end=393}}

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T18:27:04Z

SuzanneArmitage: fixed page numbers

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T18:19:52Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T18:19:08Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Predefinição:Book:Widtsoe:Evidences and Reconciliations

2009-08-15T18:16:51Z

SuzanneArmitage:

John A. Widtsoe, ''Evidences and Reconciliations: Aids to Faith in a Modern Day'', arranged by G. Homer Durham (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1960) {{{start}}}–{{{end}}}. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/508}} (subscription required)

Predefinição:Book:Robinson:Are Mormons Christians

2009-08-15T18:02:35Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Stephen E. Robinson, ''Are Mormons Christians?'' (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 1993), {{{start}}}–{{{end}}}. {{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/general/christians/index.htm#ser}}{{fairlink|url=http://store.fairlds.org/prod/p1570084092.html}}{{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/690}}

Predefinição:Book:Robinson:Are Mormons Christians

2009-08-15T18:00:57Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Stephen E. Robinson, ''Are Mormons Christians?'' (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 1993), {{{start}}}90&ndash96;{{{end}}}. {{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/general/christians/index.htm#ser}}{{fairlink|url=http://store.fairlds.org/prod/p1570084092.html}}{{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/690}}

Predefinição:Book:Robinson:Are Mormons Christians

2009-08-15T17:57:05Z

SuzanneArmitage: Fixed links.

Predefinição:PolygamyLinks

2009-08-15T17:50:21Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:PolygamyLinks|before=|after='''''Plural marriage on-line articles'''''}}
*{{Ensign|author=James B. Allen|article=Line upon Line|date=July 1979|start=32|end=40}}{{link|url=http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1979.htm/ensign%20july%201979%20.htm/line%20upon%20line.htm}}
*{{BYUS|author=Edwin B. Firmage|article=The Judicial Campaign against Polygamy and the Enduring Legal Questions|vol=27|num=3|date=Summer 1987|start=91|end=113}} {{pdflink|url=http://byustudies.byu.edu/Products/MoreInfoPage/MoreInfo.aspx?Type=7&ProdID=1272}}
* {{EoM|author=Danel Bachman, Ronald K. Esplin|article=Plural Marriage|vol=3|start=1091|end=1095}} {{link|url=http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=145}}
* Stephen R. Gibson, "Does the Book of Mormon Forbid Polygamy," ''lightplanet.com''. {{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/forbid.htm}}
*{{BYUS|author=Gordon Irving|article=The Law of Adoption: One Phase of the Development of the Mormon Concept of Salvation, 1830–1900|vol=14|num=3|date=Spring 1974|start=291|end=314}}{{link|url=http://byustudies.byu.edu/Products/MoreInfoPage/MoreInfo.aspx?prodid=1601&type=7}}
*{{Aremormonschristians|start=90|end=96}}
*Gilbert W. Scharffs, ''The Truth About “The Godmakers”: A Response to an Inaccurate Portrayal of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints'' (Salt Lake City: Publishers Press, 1986). {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/tagm/tagm00.html}}
*W. John Walsh, "Is Plural Marriage Necessary for Exaltation?" {{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/history/plural_marriage/necessary.htm}}
* Mormon-polygamy.org {{link|url=http://www.mormon-polygamy.org/}}

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T17:46:12Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T17:45:32Z

SuzanneArmitage: Added Kathryn Daynes' book.

{{editme|url=Template:Polygamy_printed|before=|after='''''Plural marriage printed references'''''}}
*Danel W. Bachman, “A Study of the Mormon Practice of Polygamy Before the Death of Joseph Smith,” (1975) (unpublished M.A. thesis, Purdue University).
*Todd Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'' (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997). ISBN 156085085X.
{{ISLReviews}}
*Kathryn Daynes, "More Wives Than One: Transformation of the Mormon Marriage System, 1840-1910" (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2008). ISBN: 0252026810.
*Stephen R. Gibson, ''One-Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions'' (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1995).
*{{WV0}}
*Joseph Fielding McConkie, ''Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1998), 27–28. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/685}} (subscription required)
*Ugo A. Perego, Natalie M. Myres, and Scott R. Woodward, 'Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith: Genealogical Applications," Journal of Mormon History 31. 3 (Fall 2005): 42-60. (Discusses how DNA shows that the parentage of Moroni Pratt, Zebulon Jacobs, and Orrison Smith is not through Joseph Smith).
*{{EaR}}

Predefinição:Book:Widtsoe:Evidences and Reconciliations

2009-08-15T17:31:37Z

SuzanneArmitage:

John A. Widtsoe, ''Evidences and Reconciliations: Aids to Faith in a Modern Day'', arranged by G. Homer Durham (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1960). {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/508}} (subscription required)

Predefinição:Book:Widtsoe:Evidences and Reconciliations

2009-08-15T17:28:42Z

SuzanneArmitage:

John A. Widtsoe, ''Evidences and Reconciliations: Aids to Faith in a Modern Day'', arranged by G. Homer Durham (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1960). ISBN 088494073 {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/508}} (subscription required)

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T17:27:43Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:Polygamy_printed|before=|after='''''Plural marriage printed references'''''}}
*Danel W. Bachman, “A Study of the Mormon Practice of Polygamy Before the Death of Joseph Smith,” (1975) (unpublished M.A. thesis, Purdue University).
*Todd Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'' (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997). ISBN 156085085X.
{{ISLReviews}}
*Stephen R. Gibson, ''One-Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions'' (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1995).
*{{WV0}}
*Joseph Fielding McConkie, ''Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1998), 27–28. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/685}} (subscription required)
*Ugo A. Perego, Natalie M. Myres, and Scott R. Woodward, 'Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith: Genealogical Applications," Journal of Mormon History 31. 3 (Fall 2005): 42-60. (Discusses how DNA shows that the parentage of Moroni Pratt, Zebulon Jacobs, and Orrison Smith is not through Joseph Smith).
*{{EaR}}

Predefinição:Book:Widtsoe:Evidences and Reconciliations

2009-08-15T17:26:55Z

SuzanneArmitage:

John A. Widtsoe, ''Evidences and Reconciliations: Aids to Faith in a Modern Day'', arranged by G. Homer Durham (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1960), {{{start}}}–{{{end}}}. ISBN 088494073 {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/508}} (subscription required)

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T17:19:52Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:Polygamy_printed|before=|after='''''Plural marriage printed references'''''}}
*Danel W. Bachman, “A Study of the Mormon Practice of Polygamy Before the Death of Joseph Smith,” (1975) (unpublished M.A. thesis, Purdue University).
*Todd Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'' (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997). ISBN 156085085X.
{{ISLReviews}}
*Stephen R. Gibson, ''One-Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions'' (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1995).
*{{WV0}}
*Joseph Fielding McConkie, ''Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1998), 27–28. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/685}} (subscription required)
*Ugo A. Perego, Natalie M. Myres, and Scott R. Woodward, 'Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith: Genealogical Applications," Journal of Mormon History 31. 3 (Fall 2005): 42-60. (Discusses how DNA shows that the parentage of Moroni Pratt, Zebulon Jacobs, and Orrison Smith is not through Joseph Smith).
*{{EaR}}

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T17:17:38Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:Polygamy_printed|before=|after='''''Plural marriage printed references'''''}}
*Danel W. Bachman, “A Study of the Mormon Practice of Polygamy Before the Death of Joseph Smith,” (1975) (unpublished M.A. thesis, Purdue University).
*Todd Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'' (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997). ISBN 156085085X.
{{ISLReviews}}
*Stephen R. Gibson, ''One-Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions'' (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1995).
*{{WV0}}
*Joseph Fielding McConkie, ''Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1998), 27–28. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/685}} (subscription required)
*Ugo A. Perego, Natalie M. Myres, and Scott R. Woodward, 'Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith: Genealogical Applications," Journal of Mormon History 31. 3 (Fall 2005): 42-60. (Discusses how DNA shows that the parentage of Moroni Pratt, Zebulon Jacobs, and Orrison Smith is not through Joseph Smith).
*{{EaR}}

Predefinição:Book:Widtsoe:Evidences and Reconciliations

2009-08-15T17:13:51Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Predefinição:Book:Widtsoe:Evidences and Reconciliations

2009-08-15T17:10:01Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T16:54:44Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:Polygamy_printed|before=|after='''''Plural marriage printed references'''''}}
*Danel W. Bachman, “A Study of the Mormon Practice of Polygamy Before the Death of Joseph Smith,” (1975) (unpublished M.A. thesis, Purdue University).
*Todd Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'' (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997). ISBN 156085085X.
{{ISLReviews}}
*Stephen R. Gibson, ''One-Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions'' (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1995).
*{{WV0}}
*Joseph Fielding McConkie, ''Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1998), 27–28. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/685}} (subscription required)
*Ugo A. Perego, Natalie M. Myres, and Scott R. Woodward, 'Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith: Genealogical Applications," Journal of Mormon History 31. 3 (Fall 2005): 42-60. (Discusses how DNA shows that the parentage of Moroni Pratt, Zebulon Jacobs, and Orrison Smith is not through Joseph Smith).
*{{EaR|start=340|end=344}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=206579}}
*{{EaR|start=390|end=393}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=206592}}

Predefinição:PolygamyPrint

2009-08-15T16:50:03Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:Polygamy_printed|before=|after='''''Plural marriage printed references'''''}}
*Danel W. Bachman, “A Study of the Mormon Practice of Polygamy Before the Death of Joseph Smith,” (1975) (unpublished M.A. thesis, Purdue University).
*Todd Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'' (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997). ISBN 156085085X.
{{ISLReviews}}
*Stephen R. Gibson, ''One-Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions'' (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1995).
*{{WV0}}
*Joseph Fielding McConkie, ''Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1998), 27–28. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=263858}}
*Ugo A. Perego, Natalie M. Myres, and Scott R. Woodward, 'Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith: Genealogical Applications," Journal of Mormon History 31. 3 (Fall 2005): 42-60. (Discusses how DNA shows that the parentage of Moroni Pratt, Zebulon Jacobs, and Orrison Smith is not through Joseph Smith).
*{{EaR|start=340|end=344}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=206579}}
*{{EaR|start=390|end=393}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=206592}}

Predefinição:WV0

2009-08-15T16:47:48Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Jeni Broberg Holzapfel and Richard Neitzel Holzapfel, eds., ''A Woman's View: Helen Mar Whitney's Reminiscences of Early Church History'' (Provo: Religious Studies Center, BYU, 1997). ISBN 1570083576. ISBN 978-1570083570. {{GL|url=http://gospelink.com/library/contents/965#}} (subscription required)

Predefinição:WV0

2009-08-15T16:44:33Z

SuzanneArmitage:

Predefinição:FR-10-2-7

2009-08-15T15:52:26Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{FR-10-2|author=Danel W. Bachman |article=Prologue to the Study of Joseph Smith's Marital Theology (Review of ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'') |start=105|end=137|url=http://mi.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=10&num=2&id=291 |pdf=http://mi.byu.edu/display/pdf.php?table=review&id=291 }}

Predefinição:FR-10-2-6

2009-08-15T15:50:29Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{FR-10-2|author=Richard Lloyd Anderson and Scott H. Faulring|article=The Prophet Joseph Smith and His Plural Wives (Review of ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith'') |start=67|end=104|url=http://mi.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=10&num=2&id=290 |pdf=http://mi.byu.edu/display/pdf.php?table=review&id=290 }}

Predefinição:ISLReviews

2009-08-15T15:46:51Z

SuzanneArmitage:

*Reviews of ''In Sacred Loneliness:''
**{{FR-10-2-6}}
**Alma G. Allred, “Variations on a Theme,” Presentation to Mormon History Association, 1999, updated on-line version of 6 December 1999. {{pdflink|url=http://www.shields-research.org/Reviews/MHA-Alma1.PDF}}
** Danel W. Bachman, “’Let No One…Set On My Servant Joseph’: Religious Historians Missing the Lessons of Religious History,” Presentation to Mormon History Association, 22 May 1999.
**{{FR-10-2-7}}
**Kathryn Daynes, “Review of ''In Sacred Loneliness'',” ''Pacific Historical Review'' 68 (August 1999): 466–468.
**Todd Compton's response to Anderson, Faulring and Bachman Reviews of ''In Sacred Loneliness''{{link|url=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7207/rev.html}}
** Todd Compton's response to Jerald and Sandra Tanners' Review of ''In Sacred Loneliness'' {{link|url=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7207/tanners.html}}

Predefinição:ISLReviews

2009-08-15T15:46:25Z

SuzanneArmitage:

*Reviews of ''In Sacred Loneliness:''
**{{FR-10-2-6}}
**Alma G. Allred, “Variations on a Theme,” Presentation to Mormon History Association, 1999, updated on-line version of 6 December 1999. {{pdflink|url=http://www.shields-research.org/Reviews/MHA-Alma1.PDF}}
** Danel W. Bachman, “’Let No One…Set On My Servant Joseph’: Religious Historians Missing the Lessons of Religious History,” Presentation to Mormon History Association, 22 May 1999.
**{{FR-10-2-7}}
**Kathryn Daynes, “Review of ''In Sacred Loneliness'',” ''Pacific Historical Review'' 68 (August 1999): 466–468.
**Todd Compton's response to Anderson, Faulring and Bachman Reviews of In Sacred Loneliness{{link|url=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7207/rev.html}}
** Todd Compton's response to Jerald and Sandra Tanners' Review of ''In Sacred Loneliness'' {{link|url=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7207/tanners.html}}

Predefinição:ISLReviews

2009-08-15T15:35:33Z

SuzanneArmitage:

*Reviews of ''In Sacred Loneliness:''
**{{FR-10-2-6}}
**Alma G. Allred, “Variations on a Theme,” Presentation to Mormon History Association, 1999, updated on-line version of 6 December 1999. {{pdflink|url=http://www.shields-research.org/Reviews/MHA-Alma1.PDF}}
** Danel W. Bachman, “’Let No One…Set On My Servant Joseph’: Religious Historians Missing the Lessons of Religious History,” Presentation to Mormon History Association, 22 May 1999.
**{{FR-10-2-7}}
**Kathryn Daynes, “Review of ''In Sacred Loneliness'',” ''Pacific Historical Review'' 68 (August 1999): 466–468.
**Todd Compton's response to Anderson and Faulring and Bachman {{link|url=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7207/rev.html}}
** Todd Compton's response to Jerald and Sandra Tanners' Review of ''In Sacred Loneliness'' {{link|url=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/7207/tanners.html}}

Predefinição:CriticalWorks

2008-08-27T23:35:38Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:SpecificAuthorsAndWorks|before=|after='''''Specific Authors and Works'''''}}
* Richard Abanes
**[[One Nation Under Gods|''One Nation Under Gods'']]
**[[Becoming Gods|''Becoming Gods: A Closer Look at 21st-Century Mormonism'']] — ([[Becoming Gods/Index|Index of claims]])
* Will Bagley
** [[Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows|''Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows'']]
* [[Fawn McKay Brodie]]
** [[No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith|''No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith'']] — ([[No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith/Index|Index of claims]])
* [[Todd Compton]]
** ''In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith''
* Ed Decker
** [[The God Makers|''The God Makers'']] (film)
* [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion#Dan Erickson|Dan Erickson]]
* [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion#Norman L. Geisler|Norman L. Geisler]]
** [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion#"Scripture," in The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism|''"Scripture," in The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism'']]
* Ronald V. Huggins
** [[From Captain Kidd's Treasure Ghost to the Angel Moroni: Changing Dramatis Personae in Early Mormonism|''From Captain Kidd's Treasure Ghost to the Angel Moroni: Changing Dramatis Personae in Early Mormonism'']]
* Charles Larson
** [[By His Own Hand upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri|''By His Own Hand upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri'']]
* [[Bob McCue]]
* McKeever & Johnson
** [[Mormonism 101|''Mormonism 101'']]
* [[Christopher Marc Nemelka]]
* Grant Palmer
** [[An Insider's View of Mormon Origins|''An Insider's View of Mormon Origins'']] — ([[An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Index|Index of claims]])
* [[D. Michael Quinn|D. Michael Quinn]]
** [[Early Mormonism and the Magic World View|''Early Mormonism and the Magic World View'']]
** [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion2#"LDS Church Authority and New Plural Marriages, 1890–1904"|''"LDS Church Authority and New Plural Marriages, 1890–1904" ]]
** [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion2#The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power|''The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power'']]
** [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion2#The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power|''The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power'']]
** [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion2#Same-Sex Dynamics Among Nineteenth-Century Americans: A Mormon Example|''Same-Sex Dynamics Among Nineteenth-Century Americans: A Mormon Example'']]
* Carol Whang Shutter
** [[September Dawn|''September Dawn'']] (film)
* Simon G. Southerton
**[[Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church|''Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church'']] — ([[Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church/Index|Index of claims]])
* [[Jerald and Sandra Tanner|Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]
**[[The Changing World of Mormonism|''The Changing World of Mormonism'']] — ([[The Changing World of Mormonism/Index|Index of claims]])
** [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion2#Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?|''Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?'']]

Predefinição:PolygamyWiki

2008-08-27T22:53:42Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:PolygamyWiki|before=|after='''''Plural marriage wiki links'''''}}
*[[Book of Mormon Condemns Polygamy]]
*[[In Sacred Loneliness Book Reviews]]
*[[Polygamy not Biblical|Plural marriage is not Biblical?]]
*[[Brigham Young and polygamy|Brigham Young]]: hiding history?
*[[Early Christians on Plural Marriage]]
*[[Emma Smith and Polygamy|Emma Smith]]
*Joseph Smith
**[[Joseph Smith and Polyandry|Polyandry]]
***[[Joseph_Smith_and_Polyandry/Book_chapter|Book chapter]]
**[[Joseph_Smith_and_Polygamy/Children_of_polygamous_marriages|Children by plural marriage?]]
***[[Joseph_Smith_and_Polygamy/Children_of_polygamous_marriages/Book_chapter|Book chapter]]
**[[Joseph Smith and Polygamy|Polygamy]]
**[[Joseph Smith's Marriages to Young Women|Polygamous marriages to young women]]
***[[Polygamy book chapter:Age of wives|Book chapter]]
*[[Polygamy because of lustful motives|Lustful motives?]]
*[[The Law of Adoption]]
*The Manifesto
**[[Official Declaration—1|The Manifesto the result of political pressure]]
**[[Polygamy after the Manifesto|Post-Manifesto plural marriages]]
*[[Polygamy and the modern Church|The modern Church and polygamous groups]]
*[[Purpose of plural marriage]]
*[[Polygamy a requirement for exaltation|Required for exaltation?]]
**[[Brigham Young in JD 11, page 269]]
**[[First Presidency Counselor on the Polygamy / Exaltation Question]]
*[[Plural marriage spiritual manifestations|Spiritual manifestations to plural wives and families]]

Predefinição:PolygamyWiki

2008-08-27T22:52:03Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:PolygamyWiki|before=|after='''''Plural marriage wiki links'''''}}
*[[Book of Mormon Condemns Polygamy]]
*[[Polygamy not Biblical|Plural marriage is not Biblical?]]
*[[Brigham Young and polygamy|Brigham Young]]: hiding history?
*[[Early Christians on Plural Marriage]]
*[[Emma Smith and Polygamy|Emma Smith]]
*Joseph Smith
**[[Joseph Smith and Polyandry|Polyandry]]
***[[Joseph_Smith_and_Polyandry/Book_chapter|Book chapter]]
**[[Joseph_Smith_and_Polygamy/Children_of_polygamous_marriages|Children by plural marriage?]]
***[[Joseph_Smith_and_Polygamy/Children_of_polygamous_marriages/Book_chapter|Book chapter]]
**[[Joseph Smith and Polygamy|Polygamy]]
**[[Joseph Smith's Marriages to Young Women|Polygamous marriages to young women]]
***[[Polygamy book chapter:Age of wives|Book chapter]]
*[[Polygamy because of lustful motives|Lustful motives?]]
*[[The Law of Adoption]]
*The Manifesto
**[[Official Declaration—1|The Manifesto the result of political pressure]]
**[[Polygamy after the Manifesto|Post-Manifesto plural marriages]]
*[[Polygamy and the modern Church|The modern Church and polygamous groups]]
*[[Purpose of plural marriage]]
*[[Polygamy a requirement for exaltation|Required for exaltation?]]
**[[Brigham Young in JD 11, page 269]]
**[[First Presidency Counselor on the Polygamy / Exaltation Question]]
*[[Plural marriage spiritual manifestations|Spiritual manifestations to plural wives and families]]

Predefinição:PolygamyWiki

2008-08-27T22:50:57Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:PolygamyWiki|before=|after='''''Plural marriage wiki links'''''}}
*[[Book of Mormon Condemns Polygamy]]
*[[Polygamy not Biblical|Plural marriage is not Biblical?]]
*[[Brigham Young and polygamy|Brigham Young]]: hiding history?
*[[Early Christians on plural marriage]]
*[[Emma Smith and polygamy|Emma Smith]]
*Joseph Smith
**[[Joseph Smith and polyandry|Polyandry]]
***[[Joseph_Smith_and_polyandry/Book_chapter|Book chapter]]
**[[Joseph_Smith_and_polygamy/Children_of_polygamous_marriages|Children by plural marriage?]]
***[[Joseph_Smith_and_polygamy/Children_of_polygamous_marriages/Book_chapter|Book chapter]]
**[[Joseph Smith and polygamy|Polygamy]]
**[[Joseph Smith's marriages to young women|Polygamous marriages to young women]]
***[[Polygamy book chapter:Age of wives|Book chapter]]
*[[Polygamy because of lustful motives|Lustful motives?]]
*[[The Law of Adoption]]
*The Manifesto
**[[Official Declaration—1|The Manifesto the result of political pressure]]
**[[Polygamy after the Manifesto|Post-Manifesto plural marriages]]
*[[Polygamy and the modern Church|The modern Church and polygamous groups]]
*[[Purpose of plural marriage]]
*[[Polygamy a requirement for exaltation|Required for exaltation?]]
**[[Brigham Young in JD 11, page 269]]
**[[First Presidency Counselor on the Polygamy / Exaltation Question]]
*[[Plural marriage spiritual manifestations|Spiritual manifestations to plural wives and families]]

Predefinição:BarneyJ-red

2007-08-01T01:19:36Z

SuzanneArmitage: fixed typo

Kevin L. Barney, “The Facsimiles and Semitic Adaptation of Existing Sources,” in John Gee and Brian M. Hauglid (editors), ''Astronomy, Papyrus, and Covenant'' (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University, 2006), {{{start}}}–{{{end}}}. ISBN 0934893764. {{link|url=http://farms.byu.edu/publications/bookschapter.php?bookid=40&chapid=168}}

Predefinição:PolygamyFAIR

2007-03-25T13:20:56Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:PolygamyFAIR|before=|after='''''Plural marriage FAIR links'''''}}
*{{tg|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai228.html|topic=Polyandry}}
*{{tg|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai049.html|topic=Polygamy}}
* Suzanne Armitage, "O that my voice could reach the ears of those uninformed and misinformed." {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Introduction_to_Mormon_Womens_Protest.html}}
* Claudia Bushman, "Lives of Mormon Women," FAIR presentation transcript, 2006. {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006_Lives_of_Mormon_Women.html}}
* Michael W. Fordham, 'Ask the Apologist'—Plural Marriage in the Book of Mormon and D&C" {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc13.html}}
* Gregory Smith, "Polygamy, Prophets, and Prevarication: Frequently and Rarely Asked Questions about the Initiation, Practice, and Cessation of Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc39.html}} {{pdflink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc39.pdf}}{{nb}}
* Allan Wyatt, "Zina and Her Men: An Examination of the Changing Marital State of Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young," FAIR presentation transcript, 2006. {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006_Zina_and_Her_Men.html}}{{NB}}

Predefinição:PolygamyFAIR

2007-03-25T13:20:14Z

SuzanneArmitage:

{{editme|url=Template:PolygamyFAIR|before=|after='''''Plural marriage FAIR links'''''}}
*{{tg|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai228.html|topic=Polyandry}}
*{{tg|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai049.html|topic=Polygamy}}
* Suzanne Armitage, "O that my voice could reach the ears of those uninformed and misinformed." {{fairlink|url=http://http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Introduction_to_Mormon_Womens_Protest.html}}
* Claudia Bushman, "Lives of Mormon Women," FAIR presentation transcript, 2006. {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006_Lives_of_Mormon_Women.html}}
* Michael W. Fordham, 'Ask the Apologist'—Plural Marriage in the Book of Mormon and D&C" {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc13.html}}
* Gregory Smith, "Polygamy, Prophets, and Prevarication: Frequently and Rarely Asked Questions about the Initiation, Practice, and Cessation of Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc39.html}} {{pdflink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc39.pdf}}{{nb}}
* Allan Wyatt, "Zina and Her Men: An Examination of the Changing Marital State of Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young," FAIR presentation transcript, 2006. {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006_Zina_and_Her_Men.html}}{{NB}}

Discussão:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Marriages to young women

2006-08-18T16:37:15Z

SuzanneArmitage: /* I defer */

==Helen Mar==
* A friend pointed out some flaws in logic involving Helen Mar Kimball (see http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=sanemormon&msg=2605.8 ). His flow of logic makes sense to me. However, since accepting what he says would pretty much mean changing that entire section, I wanted to run it by others first. Thoughts? [[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 21:21, 7 Aug 2006 (MDT)

**Hmmmm...Firefox won't direct me past that URL to the web page. Can you post the pertinent material here (or at least recap it)? --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 22:16, 9 Aug 2006 (MDT)

*Sorry about that. Here it is. It's from Scott Quantz.
----
There are a couple of issues.

1. FAIR uses Todd Compton to support a theory that there was no sexual relations between HMK and Joseph Smith because there is no evidence there were any. Compton suggests that the marriage was purely dynastic and FAIR assumes that position in the first part of the treatment.

While I think there are some inherent problems with that theory which I will explain, the second part of the defense is a list of prominent men of the era that also married teenagers but they don't suggest thise marriages were purely dynastic.

So they are defending the notion that Joseph and Helen didn't have sex and then saying that it would have been socially acceptable if they had.

Pick on side of the coin and stay with it. If there was nothing unacceptable with Joseph and Helen having sexual relations within marriage, then why spend time trying to prove they didn't? If it wasn't acceptable then why justify its propriety by listing others who did marry young women and did have sex with them.

If it was wrong, then those men should be condemned while Joseph applauded for not having sex with HMK.

Then FAIR uses the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any. Several of Joseph's wives wrote journals, including Emma. Only one, and it wasn't Emma's, states that she was Joseph's wife "in every way", possibly alluding to sexual intimacy. Clearly Emma was sexually involved with Joseph so her not mentioning it in her journal means nothing more than the fact that women of that era didn't talk about sex in the journals. Unlike modern women, these women were writing journals to inform and inspire their children; not to tittilate them.

My theory involves several pieces of evidence found in the journal. Upon hearing that her father wanted to marry her to Joseph, HMK was livid. She was not only very young, she was also in love with someone else.

Joseph was, no doubt, aware of this. It would make sense that he would not press any issues with sexual intimacy until such time as she was ready. Then, well, then he was murdered.

Joseph was keenly aware of the Lord's feelings concerning sexual relations within marriage.

"And again, verily I say unto you, that whoso forbiddeth to marry is not ordained of God, for marriage is ordained of God unto man.

Therefore, it is lawful that he should have one wife, and they twain shall be one flesh, and all this that the earth might answer the end of its creation; and that it might be filled with the measure of man, according to his creation before the world was made." (D&C 49:15-17)

The design of even dynastic marriages is to ensure a place for children.

I believe that, had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy.
----
[[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 08:09, 10 Aug 2006 (MDT)

===Here we go...===

With reference to the following issue: "My theory involves several pieces of evidence found in the journal. Upon hearing that her father wanted to marry her to Joseph, HMK was livid. She was not only very young, she was also in love with someone else."
#Helen Mar Kimball was livid but not for the reason you think. I suggest you look up the original source without Compton's ellipses.
#What is your reference for Helen Mar being in love with someone else?
#I also think that the relationship would have involved sexual relations at a later date but I do not believe that it was a connubial relationship right from the start although in Nauvoo young women were encouraged to marry as young as 14-years-old and young men as young as 17-years-old.
#I hope to add to the Helen Mar Wiki as soon as I finish the project I'm on right now with should be in a couple of weeks. Doesn't that page indicate that the page is under construction/review or something? (There, I went and added "needs work" in brackets.)
--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|Suzanne A.]] 18:22, 17 Aug 2006 (MDT)

*Just to clarify, Suzanne, the comments above were not written by Tanya, they were written by Scott Quantz and posted at the forum URL Tanya provided, above. Since Scott is not a wiki editor, there is no one to answer your questions. What we could do is add rebuttles to Scott's claims into the wiki article.
:Also, be sure to sign your posts using the signature button on the toolbar. --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 20:12, 17 Aug 2006 (MDT)

* Thank you Mike. Here are my thoughts (I just can't resist commenting when it involves Helen Mar Whitney).

1. I re-read Scott Quantz' points and have concluded that (just as I myself did right here) he is reading things that just aren't there. (My mixup with Tanya/Quantz.) FAIR is NOT using the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any. Does anyone re-reading the bit about Helen Mar get that impression? That the HMK journal excerpt is to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any?

2. Quantz' theory, "involving several pieces of evidence found in the journal", does NOT support his theory.

Helen Mar Kimball explains in her writings why she "was livid" (Quantz' words). I've been working on an article on Helen Mar for over a year and I was going to post an excerpt here explaining why she "was livid" but I changed my mind. Helen herself said that she received her father's teachings on plural marriage "meekly" (her word). Suffice it to say that, and this is no secret I've said it before, Compton (or Compton's editors) did some pretty sloppy work when he wrote that chapter on Helen Mar Kimball.

I am presently writing an introduction to a "Mormon Women's Protest" and I include a couple of examples there of Compton's shoddy work/writing. It has nothing to do with what we are discussing here, I'm just posting it as one example (of many) of why I feel that Compton does sloppy work:

>>>>>>

Full reports of these meetings were often published in the Woman’s Exponent and the Deseret News but, as noted earlier, historical sources are usually reduced to a sentence or two, a duly footnoted quotation, or ignored altogether. For example:

1) In his book In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith author Todd Compton’s chapter on Helen Mar Whitney never mentions the March 6th mass meeting.

2) Compton is also the author of a lengthy introduction to A Widow’s Tale: The 1884–1896 Diary of Helen Mar Kimball Whitney. In his introduction, Compton reduces Helen’s many diary entries about the mass meeting to one sentence:

"She attended a pro-polygamy mass meeting of women on March 6, 1886, and was asked to speak but declined."

Although Compton is technically correct, Helen did refuse “to make a verbal speach” she did agree to provide a written speech to be read at the mass meeting. This was not unusual at that time as women were unaccustomed to public speaking in front of a very large audience such as this one. But that wasn’t Helen’s only contribution. We read in her diary that a week before the mass meeting, on February 27, 1886, Helen met with Isabella Horne to help organize it:

"...to talk over the subject of having a Mass meeting to protest against the outrages committed upon “Mormon” women, and insults heeped upon them in district courts etc who are the subjects of abuse from United States officials & their sneaks thieves, etc, and taking from the women the right of franchise, that they may more easily accomplish their robbing scheme. I was one of those appointed to write a speach."

Isabella Horne was president of the Relief Society of the Salt Lake Stake; Helen Mar Whitney was her counselor.(10) Notice of the meeting was published in the Deseret News and “Mrs. H.M. Whitney” is listed just below Isabella Horne’s name. Helen also noted in her diary that she spent several days prior to the mass meeting composing her speech. In the end, due to time constraints, Helen’s speech was not read aloud but it was published in “Mormon” Women’s Protest. On March 9th, she writes: “Spent going over my speach, adding to it, as it was cut down to suit the Mass meeting. I have gained by not having it read there.” Two days later, she handed in her “improved copy.”

(fn 10) Augusta Joyce Crocheron. Representative Women of Deseret. (Salt Lake City: J.C. Graham & Co., 1884.) 115. Todd Compton was incorrect when he wrote, “On March 10, 1882, Helen was chosen by Sister M. I. Horne as second counselor in the Relief Society of the Eighteenth Ward.” (In Sacred Loneliness, 520).

>>>>>>

Quantz also says that Helen Mar was "also in love with someone else." This is untrue (I'll be re-reading my sources but I'm pretty confident that this is false.) Again, he is reading into the text something that is just not there. If I remember correctly Compton says something like (and I'm paraphrasing) 'Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace' and readers might interpret that as Helen was in love with Horace Whitney before her marriage to Joseph Smith... it says right there in Compton's book that she was a teenager when she fell in love with him. BUT Helen was still a teenager when she became a widow. So, Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace.

People tend to get all emotional when they read Compton's bits and pieces in his book and imagine a 14-year-old Helen Mar writing these things in her diary. Compton never mentions that Helen was 53-years-old when she sat down to write her reminiscences. That wouldn't have the same pull on one's heartstrings as letting the readers think that they are reading the words of a poor, benighted 14-year-old would it?

3. I agree with Quantz that "had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy." And although Compton doesn't come out and say it, it is inferred in his example (and included in our FAIR blurb) "following later practice in Utah." The example he refers to being that of an older man, marrying a young woman, and not having sexual relations with her right away... you know, until she was older.

In the end it is my opinion that it was left up to the woman whether the marriage would involve sexual relations. Some older wives chose not to. Of Brigham Young's 55(?) wives only 16 were connubial. This doesn't mean that they weren't "raising up seed." These sister-wives were called aunts by the children and helped in the rearing of children. These were just unorthodox extended families. I do know that Emmeline B. Wells is the one who asked Daniel H. Wells to marry her. Why? To help her raise her children. Why not? He was a bishop, well-to-do, etc ...anyways, that's for another topic.

--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|SuzanneArmitage]] 03:21, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

===I defer===
*Excellent. This is why I asked before I changed anything, as this is a topic I know little about. Thanks for the response Suzanne. Would you object if I sent your response to Scott via email (just so he knows his comments were considered), or would you rather I didn't? [[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 08:35, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

* Below is an edited version that you can send Scott (you can edit it or rephrase). Is your friend LDS?:

1. Scott is reading things that just aren't there. FAIR is NOT using the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any.

2. Quantz' theory, "involving several pieces of evidence found in the journal", does NOT support his theory.

Helen Mar Kimball explains in her writings why she "was livid". Helen herself said that she received her father's teachings on plural marriage "meekly" (her word).

Quantz says that Helen Mar was "also in love with someone else." This is untrue (I'll be re-reading my sources but I'm pretty confident that this is false.) Again, he is reading into the text something that is just not there. If I remember correctly Compton says something like (and I'm paraphrasing) 'Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace' and readers might interpret that as Helen was in love with Horace Whitney before her marriage to Joseph Smith... it says right there in Compton's book that she was a teenager when she fell in love with him. BUT Helen was still a teenager when she became a widow. So, Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace.

People tend to get all emotional when they read Compton's bits and pieces in his book and imagine a 14-year-old Helen Mar writing these things in her diary. Compton never mentions that Helen was 53-years-old when she sat down to write her reminiscences.

3. I agree with Quantz that "had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy."

In the end it is my opinion that it was left up to the woman whether the marriage would involve sexual relations. Some wives chose not to. Of Brigham Young's 55(?) wives only 16 were connubial. This doesn't mean that they weren't "raising up seed." These sister-wives were called aunts by the children and helped in the rearing of children. You could say these were just unorthodox extended families. I do know that Emmeline B. Wells is the one who asked Daniel H. Wells to marry her. Why? To help her raise her children. Why not? He was a bishop, well-to-do, he gave her her own house, etc ...anyways, that's for another topic.

--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|SuzanneArmitage]] 10:31, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

==Sexual fixation==
I think the following sentence makes a very important point:
:Critics who assume that everything "is all about sex" reveal more about themselves than they do about the minds of early Church members.
However, I think the tone of this comment is rather smug. I tried to improve this sentence a few times myself, but didn't like what I came up with. I think the best approach would be to find some scholarly article that addresses differences in attitudes toward the sexual nature of relationships in the 20th century vs. 19th century America. I'll look for some and report back if I find anything.... --[[User:RobertCouch|RobertCouch]] 08:55, 5 Jul 2006 (MDT)

:Yes, this does need to be toned down. Take a look now — what do you think of my edit? --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 11:10, 5 Jul 2006 (MDT)

* Smug? MOI? :) Okay, it did sound that way. But I didn't mean it. Honest. Mike's edit is much better anyway, and is what I meant. [[User:GregSmith|Greg Smith]] 13:17, 7 Jul 2006 (MDT)

Discussão:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Marriages to young women

2006-08-18T16:32:52Z

SuzanneArmitage: /* I defer */

==Helen Mar==
* A friend pointed out some flaws in logic involving Helen Mar Kimball (see http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=sanemormon&msg=2605.8 ). His flow of logic makes sense to me. However, since accepting what he says would pretty much mean changing that entire section, I wanted to run it by others first. Thoughts? [[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 21:21, 7 Aug 2006 (MDT)

**Hmmmm...Firefox won't direct me past that URL to the web page. Can you post the pertinent material here (or at least recap it)? --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 22:16, 9 Aug 2006 (MDT)

*Sorry about that. Here it is. It's from Scott Quantz.
----
There are a couple of issues.

1. FAIR uses Todd Compton to support a theory that there was no sexual relations between HMK and Joseph Smith because there is no evidence there were any. Compton suggests that the marriage was purely dynastic and FAIR assumes that position in the first part of the treatment.

While I think there are some inherent problems with that theory which I will explain, the second part of the defense is a list of prominent men of the era that also married teenagers but they don't suggest thise marriages were purely dynastic.

So they are defending the notion that Joseph and Helen didn't have sex and then saying that it would have been socially acceptable if they had.

Pick on side of the coin and stay with it. If there was nothing unacceptable with Joseph and Helen having sexual relations within marriage, then why spend time trying to prove they didn't? If it wasn't acceptable then why justify its propriety by listing others who did marry young women and did have sex with them.

If it was wrong, then those men should be condemned while Joseph applauded for not having sex with HMK.

Then FAIR uses the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any. Several of Joseph's wives wrote journals, including Emma. Only one, and it wasn't Emma's, states that she was Joseph's wife "in every way", possibly alluding to sexual intimacy. Clearly Emma was sexually involved with Joseph so her not mentioning it in her journal means nothing more than the fact that women of that era didn't talk about sex in the journals. Unlike modern women, these women were writing journals to inform and inspire their children; not to tittilate them.

My theory involves several pieces of evidence found in the journal. Upon hearing that her father wanted to marry her to Joseph, HMK was livid. She was not only very young, she was also in love with someone else.

Joseph was, no doubt, aware of this. It would make sense that he would not press any issues with sexual intimacy until such time as she was ready. Then, well, then he was murdered.

Joseph was keenly aware of the Lord's feelings concerning sexual relations within marriage.

"And again, verily I say unto you, that whoso forbiddeth to marry is not ordained of God, for marriage is ordained of God unto man.

Therefore, it is lawful that he should have one wife, and they twain shall be one flesh, and all this that the earth might answer the end of its creation; and that it might be filled with the measure of man, according to his creation before the world was made." (D&C 49:15-17)

The design of even dynastic marriages is to ensure a place for children.

I believe that, had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy.
----
[[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 08:09, 10 Aug 2006 (MDT)

===Here we go...===

With reference to the following issue: "My theory involves several pieces of evidence found in the journal. Upon hearing that her father wanted to marry her to Joseph, HMK was livid. She was not only very young, she was also in love with someone else."
#Helen Mar Kimball was livid but not for the reason you think. I suggest you look up the original source without Compton's ellipses.
#What is your reference for Helen Mar being in love with someone else?
#I also think that the relationship would have involved sexual relations at a later date but I do not believe that it was a connubial relationship right from the start although in Nauvoo young women were encouraged to marry as young as 14-years-old and young men as young as 17-years-old.
#I hope to add to the Helen Mar Wiki as soon as I finish the project I'm on right now with should be in a couple of weeks. Doesn't that page indicate that the page is under construction/review or something? (There, I went and added "needs work" in brackets.)
--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|Suzanne A.]] 18:22, 17 Aug 2006 (MDT)

*Just to clarify, Suzanne, the comments above were not written by Tanya, they were written by Scott Quantz and posted at the forum URL Tanya provided, above. Since Scott is not a wiki editor, there is no one to answer your questions. What we could do is add rebuttles to Scott's claims into the wiki article.
:Also, be sure to sign your posts using the signature button on the toolbar. --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 20:12, 17 Aug 2006 (MDT)

* Thank you Mike. Here are my thoughts (I just can't resist commenting when it involves Helen Mar Whitney).

1. I re-read Scott Quantz' points and have concluded that (just as I myself did right here) he is reading things that just aren't there. (My mixup with Tanya/Quantz.) FAIR is NOT using the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any. Does anyone re-reading the bit about Helen Mar get that impression? That the HMK journal excerpt is to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any?

2. Quantz' theory, "involving several pieces of evidence found in the journal", does NOT support his theory.

Helen Mar Kimball explains in her writings why she "was livid" (Quantz' words). I've been working on an article on Helen Mar for over a year and I was going to post an excerpt here explaining why she "was livid" but I changed my mind. Helen herself said that she received her father's teachings on plural marriage "meekly" (her word). Suffice it to say that, and this is no secret I've said it before, Compton (or Compton's editors) did some pretty sloppy work when he wrote that chapter on Helen Mar Kimball.

I am presently writing an introduction to a "Mormon Women's Protest" and I include a couple of examples there of Compton's shoddy work/writing. It has nothing to do with what we are discussing here, I'm just posting it as one example (of many) of why I feel that Compton does sloppy work:

>>>>>>

Full reports of these meetings were often published in the Woman’s Exponent and the Deseret News but, as noted earlier, historical sources are usually reduced to a sentence or two, a duly footnoted quotation, or ignored altogether. For example:

1) In his book In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith author Todd Compton’s chapter on Helen Mar Whitney never mentions the March 6th mass meeting.

2) Compton is also the author of a lengthy introduction to A Widow’s Tale: The 1884–1896 Diary of Helen Mar Kimball Whitney. In his introduction, Compton reduces Helen’s many diary entries about the mass meeting to one sentence:

"She attended a pro-polygamy mass meeting of women on March 6, 1886, and was asked to speak but declined."

Although Compton is technically correct, Helen did refuse “to make a verbal speach” she did agree to provide a written speech to be read at the mass meeting. This was not unusual at that time as women were unaccustomed to public speaking in front of a very large audience such as this one. But that wasn’t Helen’s only contribution. We read in her diary that a week before the mass meeting, on February 27, 1886, Helen met with Isabella Horne to help organize it:

"...to talk over the subject of having a Mass meeting to protest against the outrages committed upon “Mormon” women, and insults heeped upon them in district courts etc who are the subjects of abuse from United States officials & their sneaks thieves, etc, and taking from the women the right of franchise, that they may more easily accomplish their robbing scheme. I was one of those appointed to write a speach."

Isabella Horne was president of the Relief Society of the Salt Lake Stake; Helen Mar Whitney was her counselor.(10) Notice of the meeting was published in the Deseret News and “Mrs. H.M. Whitney” is listed just below Isabella Horne’s name. Helen also noted in her diary that she spent several days prior to the mass meeting composing her speech. In the end, due to time constraints, Helen’s speech was not read aloud but it was published in “Mormon” Women’s Protest. On March 9th, she writes: “Spent going over my speach, adding to it, as it was cut down to suit the Mass meeting. I have gained by not having it read there.” Two days later, she handed in her “improved copy.”

(fn 10) Augusta Joyce Crocheron. Representative Women of Deseret. (Salt Lake City: J.C. Graham & Co., 1884.) 115. Todd Compton was incorrect when he wrote, “On March 10, 1882, Helen was chosen by Sister M. I. Horne as second counselor in the Relief Society of the Eighteenth Ward.” (In Sacred Loneliness, 520).

>>>>>>

Quantz also says that Helen Mar was "also in love with someone else." This is untrue (I'll be re-reading my sources but I'm pretty confident that this is false.) Again, he is reading into the text something that is just not there. If I remember correctly Compton says something like (and I'm paraphrasing) 'Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace' and readers might interpret that as Helen was in love with Horace Whitney before her marriage to Joseph Smith... it says right there in Compton's book that she was a teenager when she fell in love with him. BUT Helen was still a teenager when she became a widow. So, Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace.

People tend to get all emotional when they read Compton's bits and pieces in his book and imagine a 14-year-old Helen Mar writing these things in her diary. Compton never mentions that Helen was 53-years-old when she sat down to write her reminiscences. That wouldn't have the same pull on one's heartstrings as letting the readers think that they are reading the words of a poor, benighted 14-year-old would it?

3. I agree with Quantz that "had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy." And although Compton doesn't come out and say it, it is inferred in his example (and included in our FAIR blurb) "following later practice in Utah." The example he refers to being that of an older man, marrying a young woman, and not having sexual relations with her right away... you know, until she was older.

In the end it is my opinion that it was left up to the woman whether the marriage would involve sexual relations. Some older wives chose not to. Of Brigham Young's 55(?) wives only 16 were connubial. This doesn't mean that they weren't "raising up seed." These sister-wives were called aunts by the children and helped in the rearing of children. These were just unorthodox extended families. I do know that Emmeline B. Wells is the one who asked Daniel H. Wells to marry her. Why? To help her raise her children. Why not? He was a bishop, well-to-do, etc ...anyways, that's for another topic.

--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|SuzanneArmitage]] 03:21, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

===I defer===
*Excellent. This is why I asked before I changed anything, as this is a topic I know little about. Thanks for the response Suzanne. Would you object if I sent your response to Scott via email (just so he knows his comments were considered), or would you rather I didn't? [[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 08:35, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

* Below is an edited version that you can send Scott (you can edit it or rephrase):

1. Scott is reading things that just aren't there. FAIR is NOT using the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any.

2. Quantz' theory, "involving several pieces of evidence found in the journal", does NOT support his theory.

Helen Mar Kimball explains in her writings why she "was livid". Helen herself said that she received her father's teachings on plural marriage "meekly" (her word).

Quantz says that Helen Mar was "also in love with someone else." This is untrue (I'll be re-reading my sources but I'm pretty confident that this is false.) Again, he is reading into the text something that is just not there. If I remember correctly Compton says something like (and I'm paraphrasing) 'Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace' and readers might interpret that as Helen was in love with Horace Whitney before her marriage to Joseph Smith... it says right there in Compton's book that she was a teenager when she fell in love with him. BUT Helen was still a teenager when she became a widow. So, Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace.

People tend to get all emotional when they read Compton's bits and pieces in his book and imagine a 14-year-old Helen Mar writing these things in her diary. Compton never mentions that Helen was 53-years-old when she sat down to write her reminiscences.

3. I agree with Quantz that "had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy."

In the end it is my opinion that it was left up to the woman whether the marriage would involve sexual relations. Some wives chose not to. Of Brigham Young's 55(?) wives only 16 were connubial. This doesn't mean that they weren't "raising up seed." These sister-wives were called aunts by the children and helped in the rearing of children. You could say these were just unorthodox extended families. I do know that Emmeline B. Wells is the one who asked Daniel H. Wells to marry her. Why? To help her raise her children. Why not? He was a bishop, well-to-do, he gave her her own house, etc ...anyways, that's for another topic.

--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|SuzanneArmitage]] 10:31, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

==Sexual fixation==
I think the following sentence makes a very important point:
:Critics who assume that everything "is all about sex" reveal more about themselves than they do about the minds of early Church members.
However, I think the tone of this comment is rather smug. I tried to improve this sentence a few times myself, but didn't like what I came up with. I think the best approach would be to find some scholarly article that addresses differences in attitudes toward the sexual nature of relationships in the 20th century vs. 19th century America. I'll look for some and report back if I find anything.... --[[User:RobertCouch|RobertCouch]] 08:55, 5 Jul 2006 (MDT)

:Yes, this does need to be toned down. Take a look now — what do you think of my edit? --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 11:10, 5 Jul 2006 (MDT)

* Smug? MOI? :) Okay, it did sound that way. But I didn't mean it. Honest. Mike's edit is much better anyway, and is what I meant. [[User:GregSmith|Greg Smith]] 13:17, 7 Jul 2006 (MDT)

Discussão:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Marriages to young women

2006-08-18T16:31:51Z

SuzanneArmitage: /* I defer */

==Helen Mar==
* A friend pointed out some flaws in logic involving Helen Mar Kimball (see http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=sanemormon&msg=2605.8 ). His flow of logic makes sense to me. However, since accepting what he says would pretty much mean changing that entire section, I wanted to run it by others first. Thoughts? [[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 21:21, 7 Aug 2006 (MDT)

**Hmmmm...Firefox won't direct me past that URL to the web page. Can you post the pertinent material here (or at least recap it)? --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 22:16, 9 Aug 2006 (MDT)

*Sorry about that. Here it is. It's from Scott Quantz.
----
There are a couple of issues.

1. FAIR uses Todd Compton to support a theory that there was no sexual relations between HMK and Joseph Smith because there is no evidence there were any. Compton suggests that the marriage was purely dynastic and FAIR assumes that position in the first part of the treatment.

While I think there are some inherent problems with that theory which I will explain, the second part of the defense is a list of prominent men of the era that also married teenagers but they don't suggest thise marriages were purely dynastic.

So they are defending the notion that Joseph and Helen didn't have sex and then saying that it would have been socially acceptable if they had.

Pick on side of the coin and stay with it. If there was nothing unacceptable with Joseph and Helen having sexual relations within marriage, then why spend time trying to prove they didn't? If it wasn't acceptable then why justify its propriety by listing others who did marry young women and did have sex with them.

If it was wrong, then those men should be condemned while Joseph applauded for not having sex with HMK.

Then FAIR uses the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any. Several of Joseph's wives wrote journals, including Emma. Only one, and it wasn't Emma's, states that she was Joseph's wife "in every way", possibly alluding to sexual intimacy. Clearly Emma was sexually involved with Joseph so her not mentioning it in her journal means nothing more than the fact that women of that era didn't talk about sex in the journals. Unlike modern women, these women were writing journals to inform and inspire their children; not to tittilate them.

My theory involves several pieces of evidence found in the journal. Upon hearing that her father wanted to marry her to Joseph, HMK was livid. She was not only very young, she was also in love with someone else.

Joseph was, no doubt, aware of this. It would make sense that he would not press any issues with sexual intimacy until such time as she was ready. Then, well, then he was murdered.

Joseph was keenly aware of the Lord's feelings concerning sexual relations within marriage.

"And again, verily I say unto you, that whoso forbiddeth to marry is not ordained of God, for marriage is ordained of God unto man.

Therefore, it is lawful that he should have one wife, and they twain shall be one flesh, and all this that the earth might answer the end of its creation; and that it might be filled with the measure of man, according to his creation before the world was made." (D&C 49:15-17)

The design of even dynastic marriages is to ensure a place for children.

I believe that, had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy.
----
[[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 08:09, 10 Aug 2006 (MDT)

===Here we go...===

With reference to the following issue: "My theory involves several pieces of evidence found in the journal. Upon hearing that her father wanted to marry her to Joseph, HMK was livid. She was not only very young, she was also in love with someone else."
#Helen Mar Kimball was livid but not for the reason you think. I suggest you look up the original source without Compton's ellipses.
#What is your reference for Helen Mar being in love with someone else?
#I also think that the relationship would have involved sexual relations at a later date but I do not believe that it was a connubial relationship right from the start although in Nauvoo young women were encouraged to marry as young as 14-years-old and young men as young as 17-years-old.
#I hope to add to the Helen Mar Wiki as soon as I finish the project I'm on right now with should be in a couple of weeks. Doesn't that page indicate that the page is under construction/review or something? (There, I went and added "needs work" in brackets.)
--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|Suzanne A.]] 18:22, 17 Aug 2006 (MDT)

*Just to clarify, Suzanne, the comments above were not written by Tanya, they were written by Scott Quantz and posted at the forum URL Tanya provided, above. Since Scott is not a wiki editor, there is no one to answer your questions. What we could do is add rebuttles to Scott's claims into the wiki article.
:Also, be sure to sign your posts using the signature button on the toolbar. --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 20:12, 17 Aug 2006 (MDT)

* Thank you Mike. Here are my thoughts (I just can't resist commenting when it involves Helen Mar Whitney).

1. I re-read Scott Quantz' points and have concluded that (just as I myself did right here) he is reading things that just aren't there. (My mixup with Tanya/Quantz.) FAIR is NOT using the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any. Does anyone re-reading the bit about Helen Mar get that impression? That the HMK journal excerpt is to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any?

2. Quantz' theory, "involving several pieces of evidence found in the journal", does NOT support his theory.

Helen Mar Kimball explains in her writings why she "was livid" (Quantz' words). I've been working on an article on Helen Mar for over a year and I was going to post an excerpt here explaining why she "was livid" but I changed my mind. Helen herself said that she received her father's teachings on plural marriage "meekly" (her word). Suffice it to say that, and this is no secret I've said it before, Compton (or Compton's editors) did some pretty sloppy work when he wrote that chapter on Helen Mar Kimball.

I am presently writing an introduction to a "Mormon Women's Protest" and I include a couple of examples there of Compton's shoddy work/writing. It has nothing to do with what we are discussing here, I'm just posting it as one example (of many) of why I feel that Compton does sloppy work:

>>>>>>

Full reports of these meetings were often published in the Woman’s Exponent and the Deseret News but, as noted earlier, historical sources are usually reduced to a sentence or two, a duly footnoted quotation, or ignored altogether. For example:

1) In his book In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith author Todd Compton’s chapter on Helen Mar Whitney never mentions the March 6th mass meeting.

2) Compton is also the author of a lengthy introduction to A Widow’s Tale: The 1884–1896 Diary of Helen Mar Kimball Whitney. In his introduction, Compton reduces Helen’s many diary entries about the mass meeting to one sentence:

"She attended a pro-polygamy mass meeting of women on March 6, 1886, and was asked to speak but declined."

Although Compton is technically correct, Helen did refuse “to make a verbal speach” she did agree to provide a written speech to be read at the mass meeting. This was not unusual at that time as women were unaccustomed to public speaking in front of a very large audience such as this one. But that wasn’t Helen’s only contribution. We read in her diary that a week before the mass meeting, on February 27, 1886, Helen met with Isabella Horne to help organize it:

"...to talk over the subject of having a Mass meeting to protest against the outrages committed upon “Mormon” women, and insults heeped upon them in district courts etc who are the subjects of abuse from United States officials & their sneaks thieves, etc, and taking from the women the right of franchise, that they may more easily accomplish their robbing scheme. I was one of those appointed to write a speach."

Isabella Horne was president of the Relief Society of the Salt Lake Stake; Helen Mar Whitney was her counselor.(10) Notice of the meeting was published in the Deseret News and “Mrs. H.M. Whitney” is listed just below Isabella Horne’s name. Helen also noted in her diary that she spent several days prior to the mass meeting composing her speech. In the end, due to time constraints, Helen’s speech was not read aloud but it was published in “Mormon” Women’s Protest. On March 9th, she writes: “Spent going over my speach, adding to it, as it was cut down to suit the Mass meeting. I have gained by not having it read there.” Two days later, she handed in her “improved copy.”

(fn 10) Augusta Joyce Crocheron. Representative Women of Deseret. (Salt Lake City: J.C. Graham & Co., 1884.) 115. Todd Compton was incorrect when he wrote, “On March 10, 1882, Helen was chosen by Sister M. I. Horne as second counselor in the Relief Society of the Eighteenth Ward.” (In Sacred Loneliness, 520).

>>>>>>

Quantz also says that Helen Mar was "also in love with someone else." This is untrue (I'll be re-reading my sources but I'm pretty confident that this is false.) Again, he is reading into the text something that is just not there. If I remember correctly Compton says something like (and I'm paraphrasing) 'Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace' and readers might interpret that as Helen was in love with Horace Whitney before her marriage to Joseph Smith... it says right there in Compton's book that she was a teenager when she fell in love with him. BUT Helen was still a teenager when she became a widow. So, Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace.

People tend to get all emotional when they read Compton's bits and pieces in his book and imagine a 14-year-old Helen Mar writing these things in her diary. Compton never mentions that Helen was 53-years-old when she sat down to write her reminiscences. That wouldn't have the same pull on one's heartstrings as letting the readers think that they are reading the words of a poor, benighted 14-year-old would it?

3. I agree with Quantz that "had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy." And although Compton doesn't come out and say it, it is inferred in his example (and included in our FAIR blurb) "following later practice in Utah." The example he refers to being that of an older man, marrying a young woman, and not having sexual relations with her right away... you know, until she was older.

In the end it is my opinion that it was left up to the woman whether the marriage would involve sexual relations. Some older wives chose not to. Of Brigham Young's 55(?) wives only 16 were connubial. This doesn't mean that they weren't "raising up seed." These sister-wives were called aunts by the children and helped in the rearing of children. These were just unorthodox extended families. I do know that Emmeline B. Wells is the one who asked Daniel H. Wells to marry her. Why? To help her raise her children. Why not? He was a bishop, well-to-do, etc ...anyways, that's for another topic.

--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|SuzanneArmitage]] 03:21, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

===I defer===
*Excellent. This is why I asked before I changed anything, as this is a topic I know little about. Thanks for the response Suzanne. Would you object if I sent your response to Scott via email (just so he knows his comments were considered), or would you rather I didn't? [[User:TanyaSpackman|TanyaSpackman]] 08:35, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

* Below is an edited version that you can send Scott (you can edit it or rephrase):

1. Scott is reading things that just aren't there. FAIR is NOT using the HMK journal to indicate that because she never mentions any intimacy, that there wasn't any.

2. Quantz' theory, "involving several pieces of evidence found in the journal", does NOT support his theory.

Helen Mar Kimball explains in her writings why she "was livid". Helen herself said that she received her father's teachings on plural marriage "meekly" (her word).

Quantz says that Helen Mar was "also in love with someone else." This is untrue (I'll be re-reading my sources but I'm pretty confident that this is false.) Again, he is reading into the text something that is just not there. If I remember correctly Compton says something like (and I'm paraphrasing) 'Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace' and readers might interpret that as Helen was in love with Horace Whitney before her marriage to Joseph Smith... it says right there in Compton's book that she was a teenager when she fell in love with him. BUT Helen was still a teenager when she became a widow. So, Helen was a teenager when she fell in love with Horace.

People tend to get all emotional when they read Compton's bits and pieces in his book and imagine a 14-year-old Helen Mar writing these things in her diary. Compton never mentions that Helen was 53-years-old when she sat down to write her reminiscences.

3. I agree with Quantz that "had he lived, Joseph and HMK would have eventually enjoyed a rich and meaningful marriage, including the joy of sexual intimacy."

In the end it is my opinion that it was left up to the woman whether the marriage would involve sexual relations. Some wives chose not to. Of Brigham Young's 55(?) wives only 16 were connubial. This doesn't mean that they weren't "raising up seed." These sister-wives were called aunts by the children and helped in the rearing of children. You could say these were just unorthodox extended families. I do know that Emmeline B. Wells is the one who asked Daniel H. Wells to marry her. Why? To help her raise her children. Why not? He was a bishop, well-to-do, he gave her her own house, etc ...anyways, that's for another topic.

>>>>>>>>>>

Speaking of theories:

I came across an interesting quote this morning which kind of jives with my pet theory about plural marriage. If one believes Joseph Smith was a prophet, then the question one needs to ask is why would God command plural marriage? My theory is that it was because the Saints failed to live the United Order.

Interestingly, Martha Cragun Cox (a plural wife) wrote in her journal: "...We usually bought cloth by the bolt and whoever needed most was served first. In fact we had in our home an almost perfect United Order. No one can tell the advantages of that system until he has lived it."
- Kenneth W. Godfrey, Audrey M. Godfrey, and Jill Mulvay Derr, eds., "Women's Voices: An Untold History of the Latter-day Saints, 1830-1900" (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1982), 286.

Helen Mar Whitney said that plural marriage had been a secret blessing to many Saints. Think of the widows who lost their husbands, young women who lost their fathers, husbands who lost their wives and had were left with small children. It's easy to dismiss the thought in today's society when women can go out and get a relatively good paying job and so on but back then that just wasn't so. Emmeline Wells tried it and it was too difficult. And to dismiss it and say, well the Saints should have looked after the less fortunate, well sad to say that had failed. If I remember correctly the Saints tried to live the United Order twice(?) and failed both times.

--[[User:SuzanneArmitage|SuzanneArmitage]] 10:31, 18 Aug 2006 (MDT)

==Sexual fixation==
I think the following sentence makes a very important point:
:Critics who assume that everything "is all about sex" reveal more about themselves than they do about the minds of early Church members.
However, I think the tone of this comment is rather smug. I tried to improve this sentence a few times myself, but didn't like what I came up with. I think the best approach would be to find some scholarly article that addresses differences in attitudes toward the sexual nature of relationships in the 20th century vs. 19th century America. I'll look for some and report back if I find anything.... --[[User:RobertCouch|RobertCouch]] 08:55, 5 Jul 2006 (MDT)

:Yes, this does need to be toned down. Take a look now — what do you think of my edit? --[[User:MikeParker|MikeParker]] 11:10, 5 Jul 2006 (MDT)

* Smug? MOI? :) Okay, it did sound that way. But I didn't mean it. Honest. Mike's edit is much better anyway, and is what I meant. [[User:GregSmith|Greg Smith]] 13:17, 7 Jul 2006 (MDT)

Predefinição:PolygamyLinks

2006-08-18T13:21:07Z

SuzanneArmitage:

<small>[http://www.fairwiki.org//index.php?title=Template:Polygamy_links&action=edit Click here] to edit this list.</small>
*[[Book of Mormon condemns polygamy]]
*[[Brigham Young and polygamy|Brigham Young]]{{nw}} 
*[[Emma Smith and polygamy|Emma Smith]]{{nw}}
*Joseph Smith
**[[Joseph Smith and polyandry|Polyandry]]{{nw}}
**[[Joseph Smith and polygamy|Polygamy]]
**[[Joseph Smith's marriages to young women|Polygamous marriages to young women]]{{nw}}
*[[The Law of Adoption]]{{nw}}
*The Manifesto
**[[Official Declaration—1|The Manifesto the result of political pressure]]{{nw}}
**[[Polygamy after the Manifesto|Post-Manifesto plural marriages]]{{nw}}
*[[Polygamy and the modern Church|The modern Church and polygamous groups]]{{nw}}
*[[Polygamy a requirement for exaltation|Required for exaltation]]{{nw}}

Discussão:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Marriages to young women

2006-08-18T09:45:36Z