FAIR - Contribuições do utilizador [pt]

Discussão:Bob McCue/Quotes and Responses

2006-07-10T04:08:41Z

DavidFerguson: asking for an opinion about adding to McCue section

The article says:

:Robert "Bob" McCue is a lawyer from Calgary, Alberta. A former LDS bishop, McCue has left the Church and now writes large amounts of material about his former faith.

Would it be appropriate to add something like:

:He is regarded as one of the premier anti-Mormons in Canada who's research on the subject of Mormonism is highly regarded by skeptics and antagonists.

And then move on to the rest:

:Sadly, McCue is not always straightforward with his readers. On occasion, he changes his claims to suit the needs of the moment. In addition, a comparison between the LDS doctrine which he taught before his apostasy, and LDS doctrine as he describes it after leaving the Church is instructive:

I think adding something like that middle part would be helpful for people who are reading this article and have never heard of McCue. Does anyone agree? Or at least agree that something like that should be added in, though not those exact words?

FAIRwiki:Project home

2006-06-23T21:07:01Z

DavidFerguson: /* Signatures */

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*[[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence]] — Looks okay; could use minor improvements.
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*[[First Vision accounts]] — Can someone summarize [http://www.eldenwatson.net/1stVIntro.htm Eldon Watson's] material?
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*[[Walter Martin's plagiarism criticisms]]

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FAIRwiki:Project home

2006-06-15T21:41:34Z

DavidFerguson: excerpt from Martin's book at the bottom ready for perusal, I've double checked it for errors

==Introduction==

Welcome to the FAIRwiki project homepage. This page is the central reference and resource for FAIRwiki editors, a place where we can collaborate, identify and prioritize needs, and make assignments.

Please treat this page as an ongoing discussion by adding your questions and comments. Vote on issues by adding your name; use the '''signature''' button on the toolbar above the editing space — [[Image:sig_button.png|alt Signature/timestamp button]] — to add your name and a timestamp.

==Links==

<table border="0" cellpadding="4">
<tr>
<td valign="top" style="background-color:#ffcccc">
*[[FAIRwiki:Table_of_contents|List of articles to create]]
*[[Special:Recentchanges|Recently modified articles]]
*[[FAIRwiki:Style_guide|Style guide]] (<font color="red">''please read and heed!''</font>)
*Templates:
:[[FAIRwiki:New_page_template|New page]]
:[[FAIRwiki:Answer_template|Answer to a question]]
*[[Help:Editing|Wiki markup language reference]]
*[[FAIRwiki:Sandbox|Practice editing]]
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==Urgent needs==

The following articles are '''<span style="color:red; background-color:yellow">''high priority''</span>''' and need to be written as soon as possible. Please comment here if you would like to volunteer, or if you get to final draft status and need peer review.

*[[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence]] — Looks okay; could use minor improvements.
*[[Book of Mormon geography]] — Could Larry Paulson from FAIR list help?
*[[First Vision accounts]] — Can someone summarize [http://www.eldenwatson.net/1stVIntro.htm Eldon Watson's] material?
*[[Joseph Smith and polyandry]] — [[GregSmith|Greg Smith]] summarize [[AllenWyatt|Allen Wyatt's]] forthcoming material
*[[Jesus Christ is the brother of Satan]] — [[GregSmith|Greg Smith]] has started this; collaboration would help.
*[[Temple endowment changes]] — Needs to be written.

===Recently completed needs===
Thanks for:
*[[Book of Abraham papyri]] — summary, with links to longer original; thanks [[MikeAsh|Mike Ash]]!
*[[Kirtland Egyptian Papers]] — [[KevinBarney|Kevin Barney]] has done!
*[[Temple work for Holocaust victims]] — [[DavidFerguson|David Ferguson]] and other editors have done this.

Please check these new contributions for errors, improvements.

==Wiki management==

*Managing editor: [[User:MikeParker|Mike Parker]] (mike@mike-parker.org)
*Senior editor: [[User:GregSmith|Greg Smith]] (glsmith7@telus.net)
*Senior editor: [[User:KevinBarney|Kevin Barney]] (klbarney@yahoo.com)
*Senior editor: [[User:McKayJones|McKay Jones]] (sumac@localnet.com)
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==Walter Martin's plagiarisms criticisms==
from
Martin, Walter. 1985. _Kingdom of the Cults_. Minneapolis, Minnesota. Bethany House Publishers. pp. 187-189

===''Plagiarisms—The King James Version''===
[pg. 187]

According to a careful survey of the ''Book of Mormon'', it contains at least 25,000 words from the King James Bible. In fact, verbatim quotations, some of considerable length, have caused the Mormons no end of embarrassment for many years.

The comparison of Moroni chapter 10 with 1 Corinthians 12:1-11, 2 Nephi 14 with Isaiah 4, and 2 Nephi 12 with Isaiah 2 reveals that Joseph Smith made free use of his Bible to supplement the alleged revelation of the golden plates. The book of Mosiah, chapter 14 in the ''Book of Mormon'', is a reproduction of the fifty third chapter of Isaiah the prophet; and 3 Nephi 13:1-18 copies Matthew 6:1-23.

The Mormons naively suggest that when Christ allegedly appeared on the American continent after His resurrection and preached to the Nephites

[pg. 188]

he quite naturally used the same language as recorded in the Bible. They also maintain that when Nephi came to America he brought copies of Hebrew Scriptures, which account for quotations from the Old Testament. The only difficulty with these excuses is that the miraculous plates upon which they were all inscribed, somehow or another, under translation, came out in King James English without variation approximately a thousand years before this 1611 version was written. Such reasoning on the part of the Mormons strains at the limits of credulity and only they are willing to believe it.

There are other instances of plagiarisms from the King James Bible including paraphrases of certain verses. One of these verses (1 John 5:7) is reproduced in 3 Nephi 11:27, 36. The only difficulty with the paraphrase here is that the text is considered by scholars to be an interpolation missing from all the major manuscripts of the New Testament but present in the King James Bible from which Smith paraphrased it not knowing the difference.

Another example of this type of error is found in 3 Nephi 11:33-34, and is almost a direct quotation from Mark 16:16, a passage regarded by many New Testament Greek scholars as an addition to that gospel by an overzealous scribe. But Joseph Smith was not aware of this either, so he even copied in translational errors, another proof that neither he nor the alleged golden plates were inspired of God.

Two further instances of plagiarisms from the King James Bible which have backfired on the Mormons are worth noting.

In the third chapter of the book of Acts, Peter's classic sermon at Pentecost paraphrases Deuteronomy 18:15-19. While in the process of writing 3 Nephi, Joseph Smith puts Peter's paraphrase in the mouth of Christ when the Savior was allegedly preaching to the Nephites. The prophet overlooked the fact that at the time that Christ was allegedly preaching His sermon, the sermon itself had not yet been preached by Peter.

In addition to this, 3 Nephi makes Christ out to be a liar, when in verse 23 of chapter 20 Christ attributes Peter's words to Moses as a direct quotation when, as we have pointed out, Peter paraphrased the quotation from Moses; and the wording is quite different. But Joseph did not check far enough, hence this glaring error.

Secondly, the ''Book of Mormon'' follows the error of the King James translation which renders Isaiah 4:5: "For upon all the glory shall be a defense"(See 2 Nephi 14:5).

Modern translations of Isaiah point out that if should read "For over all the glory there will be a canopy," not a defense. The Hebrew word, "chuppah," does not mean defense but a protective curtain or canopy. Smith, of course, did not know this nor did King James translators from whose work he copied.

There are quite a number of other places where such errors appear, including Smith's insistence in Abraham 1:20 that "Pharaoh signifies king by royal blood," when in reality the dictionary defines the meaning of the term Pharaoh as "a great house or palace."

The Revised Standard Version of the Bible renders Isaiah 5:25: "And

[pg. 189]

their corpses were as refuse in the midst of the streets," correctly rendering the Hebrew ''suchah'' as refuse, not as "torn." The King James Bible renders the passage: "And their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets." The ''Book of Mormon'' (2 Nephi 15:25) repeats the King James' text word for word, including the error of mistranslating ''suchah'', removing any claim that the ''Book of Mormon'' is to be taken seriously as reliable material.

Utilizador Discussão:DavidFerguson

2006-06-02T03:52:11Z

DavidFerguson:

FAIRwiki:Project home

2006-06-02T01:06:16Z

DavidFerguson: /* <span style="color:red; background-color:yellow">Urgent needs</span> */

Utilizador Discussão:DavidFerguson

2005-11-05T21:40:46Z

DavidFerguson: ignore

=Return to=
==The Bible==
*all
==Book of Mormon==
===Anachronisms===
-adieu, animals, Jerusalem vs. Bethlehem, metals, reformed Egyptian, Shiz article, and Snow
===Authorship Theories===
-author and proprietor article,
===Other Book of Mormon topics===
-The Hill Cumorah, fulness of the Gospel, Historicity, Moroni as an Angel of Satan, Olive Culture, Condemnation of Polygamy, textual changes

Discussão:Moroni's visit/Angel of Satan

2005-11-05T21:09:38Z

DavidFerguson: question requiring concensus

Should the last part of the conclusion (second paragraph to end) be taken out? It is a good read, but it is not at all related to the article.

Thoughts?

Discussão:Book of Mormon hebraisms

2005-11-05T20:34:06Z

DavidFerguson:

The title on the Pages to Create list is spelled wrong. I don't know how to fix that, so I will leave it up to you Mike.

Utilizador Discussão:DavidFerguson

2005-11-05T19:53:22Z

DavidFerguson: ignore

==Return to==
The Bible
*all
Authorship Theories
*all
Anachronisms
-adieu, animals, Jerusalem vs. Bethlehem, metals, reformed Egyptian, Shiz article, and Snow

Utilizador Discussão:DavidFerguson

2005-11-04T20:20:21Z

DavidFerguson: ignore

==Return to==
The Bible
*all
Authorship Theories
*all
Anachronisms
-adieu, animals, Jerusalem vs. Bethlehem, metals

Discussão:Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Metals

2005-11-04T20:12:24Z

DavidFerguson: important question

There is one sentence which has a dual meaning in the section of Metallurgy:

Since Mesoamerica was known to trade with areas with metal, and because metal artifacts dating prior to A.D. 900 have been found in the area, it seems reasonable to assume that at least some Mesoamericans knew something about metallurgy.

Did Mesoamerica trade with areas that used metals, or did they use metal to trade with other areas?

Utilizador Discussão:DavidFerguson

2005-11-04T19:57:20Z

DavidFerguson: please still ignore

==Return to==
The Bible
*all
Authorship Theories
*all
Anachronisms
-adieu, animals, Jerusalem vs. Bethlehem

Utilizador Discussão:DavidFerguson

2005-11-01T19:51:02Z

DavidFerguson: These are personal reminders and goal, just ignore

==Return to==
The Bible
*all
Authorship Theories
*all
Anachronisms
-adieu

Discussão:Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Animals

2005-11-01T19:50:07Z

DavidFerguson:

Never mind. I should have looked a bit farther in the article before posting.

Discussão:Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Animals

2005-11-01T19:48:04Z

DavidFerguson:

Should we put links to Book of Mormon verses that show where the animals are mentioned? I'll "find" the verses, I just want to know if others think it is a good idea.

Discussão:Book of Mormon/Authorship theories/View of the Hebrews

2005-10-22T18:37:12Z

DavidFerguson:

There are a couple of errors in the quote, one was "bherings Strait" rather than "Bering Strait". Are these in the original, or are they mistakes made by whoever inserted the quote?

Discussão:Polygamy/Book of Mormon condemns the practice

2005-10-08T19:45:52Z

DavidFerguson:

I'll finish editing this soon, I have to go right now. - David Ferguson